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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 18, 2008 2:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Hendrix and the Dead

Jimi Hendrix died the morning of September 18, thanks to a casual helping of wine and sleeping pills. With his habit of taking any quantity of any drug he was given, it's somewhat amazing he lasted as long as he did - (like other guitarists we could name....)
Though he and the Dead traveled in very different circles, their paths crossed a few times. Musically they were nothing alike; though sometimes when the Dead were playing with noise (for instance on 2-14-70, in the second-set Feedback or the first-set space section in Dark Star) they could sound a bit like Hendrix. Their brief Foxy Lady jam on 4-21-69 is well-known; there's also an interesting moment about 17 minutes into the Lovelight on 4-11-70 - as the Lovelight breaks down they start another Foxy Lady-type riff, and Garcia wails in with a long sustained Hendrix-style feedback note almost like he's been possessed for a moment.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd69-04-21.sbd.bertha-ashley.19841.sbeok.shnf http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-04-11.sbd.cotsman.12072.sbeok.shnf

The Dead played before Hendrix at Monterey. Though Hendrix spent hours after the shows backstage jamming with others like John Cippollina, Jorma Kaukonen and Jack Casady, the stories differ, and though some claim he played with Garcia, it seems he never did. There's a famous story about how the Who and Hendrix tossed a coin to see who would go on first.....somehow it always gets left out that the Dead went on in-between them. In practically every Monterey account I've seen, the Dead's performance is either dismissed or forgotten entirely - by their refusal to be included in the film, they pretty much deleted themselves from that moment in musical history. (Though at the time they may have been more well-known in the US than Hendrix was - Are You Experienced didn't come out in the US until August.) Film director Pennebaker also said, "We were trying not to use up all our film on any one band, so we figured one song per group -- that is, until we started shooting Hendrix and The Who and then just threw everything into the pot. The Grateful Dead presented another problem. They got started and didn't know how to stop. They purely outlasted us. After ten minutes they were still on their first song [Viola Lee], and we simply ran out of film and lost them."
Their set hasn't been released; Hendrix's set seems to be re-released every decade.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd67-06-18.sbd.mandrake.19586.sbeok.shnf

In early February '68 Hendrix's tourings took him again to San Francisco, where some of his shows on Feb 3-4 were taped - the Dead were on their Northwest tour. But in October '68 he returned for three more nights at the Winterland, while the Dead were playing three nights at the Avalon. By then he was a superstar - much as the Dead had their huge 'family', Hendrix also had his own entourage, a 24-hour party that followed him everywhere. He taped his shows at the Winterland for possible use in a live album, but decided they weren't good enough. (A selection was released in the '80s, and some of the sets can be played over at Wolfgangs Vault: http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/arr/jimi-hendrix/3342.html ) He used the occasion to bring on a number of San Francisco artists to jam with onstage, including Jack Casady - he was starting to get fed up with playing 'the hits' and was doing longer solos and instrumentals in his shows. Nonetheless, pressured by his management, he would always play mostly 'the hits' and the same few songs, and hardly ever did the kind of freeform shows he could have done - only in '69 did he sometimes play extended improvisations, so he had a very different approach to his shows than the Dead did.
Hendrix had constant troubles with his amplifiers through the Winterland shows; on October 12 they burned out completely mid-song, resulting in a long drum solo while they were fixed. The 12th had probably the weakest shows of the run, with Hendrix sounding despondent and constantly apologizing for the equipment trouble while his amps were fixed: "It's just too bad that we're having all this trouble tonight.... We'd like to come back here again to make up for these last two nights where we've been having very bad equipment, because we want you to hear us the way we really are....and make up for this junk we have behind us.... You must all be really tired, cause I really am, I'm sorry, I really am tired."
But, tired as he was, it seems it was on October 12/13 that Hendrix had his chance to jam with the Dead - Chet Helms tells the sad story:
"Hendrix is back in San Francisco and he calls me and asks me to put together a jam with him and Quicksilver and the Grateful Dead. He said he really enjoyed jamming at Monterey and would like to do it again... I told him, "Sure, I think I can set it up." I made a few calls and got it together....I set it up for Quicksilver and the Dead to show up and jam with Hendrix.... I called Hendrix back and told him to meet us at the ferry boat in Sausalito at 2 am, and we would jam all night. We go out to this place [October 12], and the Dead are beat and dead tired because they had just played the Avalon, but after all, it's a jam with Hendrix. We sit there from 2 am until morning, and Hendrix never shows. Everybody in Quicksilver and the Dead were pissed.... The Dead played again at the Avalon that night [October 13] and Hendrix shows up there while the Dead were playing. [His shows were through and he had the night free.] Hendrix comes up to me and I told him that the Dead and Quicksilver and I were waiting for him all night in Sausalito, and I asked him what happened. Hendrix says, "Oh, I met this broad, and we dropped acid and we fucked all night".... Hendrix said, "Can I jam with the Grateful Dead tonight on the stage?" and I said, "It's OK with me, but it's their gig - if they want that to happen, it's fine with me." I brought Hendrix into the dressing room and told the Dead that Jimi wanted to jam with them, and they're saying, "Great! We'll do it!" The Grateful Dead go back out onstage to do their last set of the night and start playing. And keep playing. I tell Hendrix and everybody that no matter what, I'm pulling the plug at midnight. [The Avalon had a strict curfew, so Dead shows there had to be kept short, which accounts for the rushed endings we hear at some of their shows there.] What happened was the Dead kept telling him to wait, and played out their set.... So Hendrix never jammed with the Grateful Dead, and the bottom line is they were pissed at him."
This is the show Hendrix waited through:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd68-10-13.sbd.eD.10910.sbeok.shnf

The Dead and Hendrix played famous sets at Woodstock in '69. The Dead's set is famed for being terrible - with delays, high winds, rain, a collapsing stage, radio signals in the speakers, and electric fireballs of death onstage - though they held together pretty well. Hendrix didn't arrive til the next day, and his set was also fairly chaotic what with an unrehearsed band, more sound problems onstage, and having to wait til 8 am to play to a sleeping, mud-drenched audience; but by the end of the show he got it together enough to perform a remarkable improvised, mostly instrumental medley that's perhaps his finest moment - and also the closest he came to a Dead-style medley that takes the listener on an emotional arc from rock to noise & feedback to a flamenco-like passage to a wordlessly fragile, melancholy finish. Afterwards Hendrix fled to a hotel, tired and unhappy with his performance and wanting to get away from everyone, and passed out.
The Dead's show of course hasn't been released; Hendrix's show has been re-released several times.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd69-08-16.sbd.cotsman.15205.sbeok.shnf

The last time they appeared together was on May 16, 1970, playing a bill at Temple University in Philadelphia along with Steve Miller. Miller saw Hendrix backstage and says, "He was really sick. He looked like he was really strung out. He had a bunch of Mafia thugs who were working with him. The Grateful Dead played, then we played, then Jimi. When Jimi came out and walked by me, he smelled so bad it almost made you sick. He and Mitch Mitchell had just shot up a whole lot of methedrine and he was completely wigged out. They were both in really bad shape." A tape was made of Hendrix's show and it's one of the poorest shows of an erratic year for him - he's obviously quite wasted. Audience members also started taping the Dead's show until they were stopped by a mean Sam Cutler:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-05-16.aud.weiner.14769.sbeok.shnf

On September 19, 1970, while the Dead were in their Fillmore East run, Led Zeppelin were playing at Madison Square Garden, and Robert Plant took a moment to say to the audience: "Yesterday something happened - Jimi Hendrix died and we're all very sorry because he contributed a lot to the current music thing, and we'd like to just hope that everybody thinks it's a real shame."
The Dead, as far as I know, never commented, but Garcia in an interview shortly after Janis Joplin's death (which he called "a dumb fucking accident") complained about "that celebrity bullshit": "You can't get away from it....so it leaves the human things just completely fucked up and that's one of the things that has never been successfully handled in society.... The whole star system is not something that really happens; it's something somebody invented and laid on the public. It's responsible for all the evils in the music business, that whole trip, in terms of what it does, in terms of why people turn to downs or drugs and stuff like that just to get away from the shit for a while. I mean, Jimi Hendrix lived with it. I never saw him without a half-dozen weird people hanging around him - vampires and shit. It's just a bummer."

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Poster: user unknown Date: Sep 18, 2008 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead

Thanks brother.

I hope you don't mind, but I copied this to Daedhook(with proper credit given to the source).

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 18, 2008 3:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead

Hey Bill--good to see you friend. I thought exactly the same thing; it was soooo good of you to post this "over there."

No intention whatsoever of starting the "us/them" wars, BUT I will say this: I am damn proud of the likes of LIA, HeLives, and DHMonte. Along with DrFlashback they and many other kind souls (Arbuthnot, Ashes, Rob, McGlone, HFlow, Rasta/CCharlie, BD, Strat, PGel, JGl, Elb, and a host of newcomers) make this place amazing...

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Sep 18, 2008 6:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead

fantastic composition, many thanks for taking the time to put that together; i think it has only been in the past year that i've really come to appreciate Jimi's talent, which was prodigious indeed

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Poster: He Live's Date: Sep 18, 2008 8:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead & the SSB

i like the AXIS album a lot, but otherwise, hendrix has always seemed like a lot of unrealized potential to me. one of the things that contributes to that is he always seemed to have a "cobbled together" kind of band -- never a very cohesive sounding unit.

whether this is a result of the same or not i don't know, but the his music, particularly the live stuff i have heard, has always sounded RAGGED, unrefined -- like he was always playing through a shitty PA -- or just, Loud and Sloppy. you gotta figure that if he was able to survive the first, what, 5 years -- and get into a space BEYOND the crazy celebrity that surrounded him he would have started producing some more coherent music --

what can you say? he was the most extreme FLAME OUT to ever grace the earth -- since who, Jesus of Nazareth? -- i don't know who to compare him to.... other than making a few hit records, he seems to have been Here for the ONE DEFINING MOMENT: his rendition of the STAR SPANGLED BANNER at woodstock was a monumental, once in a generation, unparalleled artistic/social achievement. i think, taken in full context, his performance was the single greatest thing he ever achieved and set his legacy in stone. a truly artistic statement, far beyond anything any one of his contemporaries could have done.....



but like Jerry said, he was surrounded by vampires! who could survive that ? -- and thanks for that last link -- if you other readers haven't checked it, listen to the New Speedway from that temple show and hear cutler shut down the tapers....



This post was modified by He Live's on 2008-09-18 15:56:47

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Sep 18, 2008 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead & the SSB

I wish he had a chance to do more stuff with Brian Jones; this clip gives you a taste - too bad the tunes are the vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqqaw9iN0Js

Side note - heard on KPIG the other day that Stephen Stills has unreleased tapes of him and Jimi "jamming" at Still's place in Topanga Canyon with some others that he's finally gotten permission to release and plans to do so in coming year.

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2008-09-18 16:48:21

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Poster: fireeagle Date: Sep 18, 2008 11:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead & the SSB

w/ stills
http://www.archive.org/details/jimihendrix1968-05-21stephenstills

w/ john mclaughlin, johnny winter, stills etc
http://www.archive.org/details/JimiHendrix1969-03-25JohnMcLaughlin

w/ traffic
http://www.archive.org/details/traffic1968jimi

This post was modified by fireeagle on 2008-09-18 18:11:37

This post was modified by fireeagle on 2008-09-18 18:35:05

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Poster: buscameby Date: Sep 18, 2008 12:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead & the SSB

Thanks so much for this!

Am I the last one here to find out that Sugarmegs is now hosted on Archive?????

This is a real blessing.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 18, 2008 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead & the SSB

I can defn agree with this, but a number of less dramatic songs (HeyJoe, WindCriesMary, etc), I think, are his best contributions (with a refined, perfected sound to them) to counter what you speak of (which in general is true).

I do like VChild off ELLand, as a ragged live style song of the type you mention, but the other more subdued ones I mentioned above are really my favorite tunes of his...

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Poster: spring mountain high Date: Sep 19, 2008 6:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead & the SSB

i LOVE the long voodoo child w/ winwood on electric ladyland, and i believe that was where hendrix really wanted to go with his music...jimi was my first musical epiphany, before the dead even.

i had also read that miles davis had tapped him to play guitar on 'bitches brew' instead of mcglaughlin, but some rogue vomit put the kibosh on that.

that which burns brightest also burns fastest

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 18, 2008 12:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead & the SSB

I'm mildly surprised that no one has mentioned Hendrix's radical reworking of 'All Along the Watchtower'. Did anyone else ever take a Dylan song and make it so definitively their own that Dylan himself did it their way?

And though I'd agree that he was something of an unrealised talent, and that I practically never choose to sit down and listen to Jimi Hendrix these days, he was to my mind the most influential player of the electric guitar who ever picked up the instrument. Electric guitar playing can be split into Before Jimi and After Jimi - it's just a shame that the AJ acolytes mostly ended up in excruciating heavy metal bands, all speed and no imagination - but there you go.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 18, 2008 12:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead & the SSB

Word. [Dylan point]

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Poster: rastamon Date: Sep 18, 2008 6:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead & the SSB

imo, the only guitarist to come close to Jimi's inovative talent/style was Stevie Ray Vaughn

wonder if jerry ever jammed with him

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 18, 2008 6:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead

Thanks once again LIA! Good read.

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Poster: snori Date: Apr 29, 2010 12:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead

Thanks for posting this LIA - checking out the links will keep me from doing too much work this morning. I recently got the three night run from Winterland in Oct '68 and it's renewed my enthusiasm for the Experience. Plus some later studio work has emerged which show some subtler, beautiful elements emerging in his playing that, sadly, we never saw come to fruition.

I thought no-one was going to mention it, but I see Rob is on the ball. All along the Watchtower is the finest piece of 7 inch vynil ever.

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Poster: My Brother Esau Date: Sep 18, 2008 6:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hendrix and the Dead

Did Jimi and Jerry ever talk to each other?